The Meeting Place on Uru

March 20, 2016

(03/20 15:53:17) From Yutiel in Yutiel's Nexus: no one yet in Meeting Place. Coming back.
(03/20 15:53:59) From Yutiel: hello
(03/20 15:54:02) J'Kla: Shorah
(03/20 15:54:04) Yutiel: Hello
(03/20 15:54:32) Yutiel: hello Moulton
(03/20 15:54:36) To Yutiel: I just linked to Meeting Place. One person here, but no meeting to be seen.
(03/20 15:54:50) J'Kla: Welcome to the meeting place
(03/20 15:55:20) Moulton: Was there a meeting here today?
(03/20 15:55:25) J'Kla: both of you
(03/20 15:55:34) Moulton: Is it over, or was there even one at all?
(03/20 15:55:35) J'Kla: Every Sunday at this time
(03/20 15:55:49) J'Kla: you just happen to be first arrivals
(03/20 15:55:57) Moulton: 13:00 Ki Time was an hour ago.
(03/20 15:56:05) Yutiel: time has changed in USA
(03/20 15:56:07) J'Kla: Clock change
(03/20 15:56:19) J'Kla: europe is still an hour behind
(03/20 15:56:25) Yutiel: hi Zeke:)
(03/20 15:56:30) Zeke365: hello everybody
(03/20 15:56:40) Moulton: Ki Time is US Mountain Time, including the change to US Daylight Savings Time.
(03/20 15:56:54) Yutiel: i am behind...*sniff*
(03/20 15:57:07) Moulton: The last few events have mixed up Ki Time with US Daylight Savings Time.
(03/20 15:57:23) J'Kla: Yes but us Europeans tend to lose it when the US change their clocks a couple of weeks early
(03/20 15:57:27) Zeke365: so the ki has daylight saving
(03/20 15:57:44) Moulton nods. Ki Time is New Mexico Time.
(03/20 15:57:46) Yutiel: better behind then time-confused for days :D
(03/20 15:57:55) Moulton: New Mexico goes on DST.
(03/20 15:58:00) J'Kla: The Meeting place meetings have DST
(03/20 15:58:17) J'Kla: The KI is adjusted
(03/20 15:58:19) Moulton: People got confused on St. Patrick's Day, too.
(03/20 15:58:59) Moulton: The Ki is supposed to be where the Cavern is located, which is New Mexico. Albuquerque is now on Mountain Daylight Time.
(03/20 15:59:01) J'Kla: The shards are terrestrial
(03/20 15:59:09) Yutiel: i liked that: got more spicy that way :)
(03/20 15:59:36) J'Kla: We just go with the flow here
(03/20 15:59:42) Moulton: The Europeans are not yet on DST, so some of them got confused.
(03/20 15:59:47) Yutiel: yep.
(03/20 15:59:52) J'Kla: Me included
(03/20 16:00:00) Yutiel: not
(03/20 16:00:22) Moulton: The notices on FB are still saying EST instead of EDT.
(03/20 16:00:34) Yutiel: which part Kla? If I may ask.
(03/20 16:00:38) Moulton: I'm in Boston. We are now on EDT, not EST.
(03/20 16:00:56) J'Kla: Northern England a true Geordie
(03/20 16:01:02) Yutiel: me Germany
(03/20 16:01:21) Yutiel: hi
(03/20 16:01:24) J'Kla: Excuse typos cleaned my keyboard and its gone all flaky
(03/20 16:01:48) Moulton: The cavern tours were an hour earlier than those in Europe might have expected.
(03/20 16:01:49) Yutiel: Aaa, np
(03/20 16:02:08) J'Kla: My Geordie is better than the one spoken on Castle
(03/20 16:02:41) J'Kla: as in Castle the TV show
(03/20 16:02:51) J'Kla: Nathan Fillion
(03/20 16:03:07) Yutiel:, don't watch this kind of live-shows.
(03/20 16:03:22) J'Kla: It is subject to severe ridicule here.
(03/20 16:03:46) Yutiel: thats not nice :(
(03/20 16:03:46) J'Kla: live?
(03/20 16:03:58) Moulton would like to see if his Ki Mic is now working.
(03/20 16:04:09) J'Kla: yes
(03/20 16:04:18) Yutiel: Ah, yes, hear you
(03/20 16:04:18) Zeke365: yes
(03/20 16:04:20) J'Kla: faint
(03/20 16:04:21) Moulton: Fabulous. It didn't used to work.
(03/20 16:04:36) Moulton: I can turn up volume on Audio Settings.
(03/20 16:05:09) J'Kla: still quiet about half volume
(03/20 16:05:14) Zeke365: sorry about that was afk for moment
(03/20 16:05:17) Yutiel: Ok, for me if I turn the sound off from the fountain
(03/20 16:05:39) Zeke365: turn down your audio setting in game and you can hear clearly
(03/20 16:06:09) Yutiel: Did
(03/20 16:06:09) J'Kla: We have tended avoid this option when we had a crowd there was cross talk
(03/20 16:07:09) J'Kla: No problem with mike but we used to also like a recorded transcript
(03/20 16:07:19) Yutiel looks around for a bit
(03/20 16:07:33) Yutiel: No crowd here :)
(03/20 16:07:44) J'Kla: Exactly
(03/20 16:07:50) J'Kla: no issue today
(03/20 16:07:55) Zeke365: sadly no I advertised this event on Facebook
(03/20 16:08:07) Yutiel: no? Oo. :(
(03/20 16:08:17) Zeke365: ?
(03/20 16:08:26) Yutiel: Nothing to talk about?
(03/20 16:08:34) J'Kla: We have no way of knowing how many will drop by
(03/20 16:08:49) J'Kla: We always find something
(03/20 16:08:49) Moulton: You did advertise it Zeke.
(03/20 16:09:04) Zeke365: yep is that bad thing
(03/20 16:09:19) Moulton: But the time was listed a bit off, because of Daylight Savings Time.
(03/20 16:09:23) J'Kla: no we like the meetings announced
(03/20 16:09:36) Yutiel: Ok. I made the first of your marker game Zeke. Now i go to the mentioned Url, right?
(03/20 16:09:52) Zeke365: okay I thought did something bad for a moment
(03/20 16:09:57) Yutiel: There I get my next?
(03/20 16:10:04) J'Kla: no not a bad
(03/20 16:10:33) J'Kla: The only bad here is being rude or abusive
(03/20 16:10:44) Zeke365: yes Yutiel and parts 3-8 are already done plus you get them from magic bot
(03/20 16:10:55) Moulton: The only problem is that 1300 Ki time is not 3PM EST. It's 3PM EDT, an hour later than before.
(03/20 16:11:16) Zeke365: then after you read part 2 you get a hint on the next location then do part 3 in game
(03/20 16:11:18) Yutiel: no, ah...understand issue was meant for using the mike not as: we haven't anything to talk about...misunderstood sorry.
(03/20 16:11:40) Yutiel: hello Drahcir
(03/20 16:11:48) Drahcir: Hi
(03/20 16:11:55) Zeke365: hope that helps
(03/20 16:11:57) Moulton waves hello
(03/20 16:12:06) Zeke365: hello drahcir
(03/20 16:12:06) J'Kla: By rude and abusive we don't mean swearing; that's ok as long as we protect minors more we are against interpersonal rude or abusiveness
(03/20 16:12:21) Yutiel: Thx zeke.
(03/20 16:12:40) J'Kla: Hi Drachir haven't seen you in a while
(03/20 16:12:43) Zeke365: welcome
(03/20 16:12:49) J'Kla: wb
(03/20 16:12:50) Yutiel: Oops, who was rude?
(03/20 16:13:14) Drahcir: Yeah. Hi j'kla... haven't been on in probably...years!!
(03/20 16:13:18) J'Kla: Nobody just saying it was the only hood BAD thing
(03/20 16:13:24) Moulton: I have encountered some rude and abusive conduct, but not in-game in MOULa.
(03/20 16:13:48) J'Kla: We had a couple of trolls over the years
(03/20 16:13:59) Drahcir: Didn't know if any of the old TMPers are still on
(03/20 16:14:02) J'Kla: But the hoods been running a long time
(03/20 16:14:12) Yutiel: On these screens I saw some in some hoods, but luckily they have gone
(03/20 16:14:18) J'Kla Holds hand up
(03/20 16:14:24) Drahcir: Lol
(03/20 16:14:25) J'Kla: that would be me
(03/20 16:14:34) Moulton: I did see some intemperate items posted on imagers in some Hoods, though not in mine.
(03/20 16:14:51) J'Kla: Been on TMP since the admin error
(03/20 16:15:24) Yutiel: so you are an old gamer Kla..And I wanted you to ask if you need any help, when i
(03/20 16:15:45) Moulton: Most of the obnoxious stuff that I personally witnessed was either on Facebook or in another Shard.
(03/20 16:15:47) J'Kla: For those that don't know just Google Uru UbiSoft admin error
(03/20 16:16:22) Moulton: So all of that would have been outside the purview of Cyan, I reckon.
(03/20 16:16:23) Drahcir: Is that why all my progress is gone and I had to start over?
(03/20 16:16:25) J'Kla: Yes I have a long Uru history
(03/20 16:16:48) Drahcir: Me
(03/20 16:16:53) Moulton: There was a Vault Wipe a few years ago. Everyone had to start over.
(03/20 16:16:56) J'Kla: I am known at Cyan
(03/20 16:17:07) J'Kla: If remotely
(03/20 16:17:21) Yutiel: Sigh, been here half a year and still a toddler, so it seems.
(03/20 16:17:35) J'Kla: I was involved in the first fan based intervention
(03/20 16:17:46) Yutiel: Wow...
(03/20 16:18:17) J'Kla: Back when it ran on private shards
(03/20 16:18:22) Drahcir: I ran an until URU shard back in the day
(03/20 16:18:23) Yutiel: nice to have you two back :))
(03/20 16:18:37) J'Kla: Plus I have some Ages on Deep Island
(03/20 16:18:48) Moulton: Is it within the scope of this meeting to discuss issues that take place on Facebook, in Uru-related groups?
(03/20 16:19:05) J'Kla: whatever you like
(03/20 16:19:17) From Yutiel: Ah, no pls.
(03/20 16:19:20) J'Kla: hardware history anything
(03/20 16:19:38) Moulton: I have discovered there are at least half a dozen FB groups devoted to Uru. It's bewildering.
(03/20 16:19:40) J'Kla: Just don't bad mouth people
(03/20 16:19:47) Yutiel: Ah got one...
(03/20 16:20:05) Yutiel: i can't play Deep Island :(
(03/20 16:20:17) J'Kla: I predate Facebook unfortunately
(03/20 16:20:24) Moulton: Some are Public. Some are Closed. And for all I know, some may be Secret.
(03/20 16:20:31) Drahcir laughs
(03/20 16:20:43) Yutiel: always get the same error: Mainbranch-error. Must close the game.
(03/20 16:21:36) J'Kla: I believe that may be a run in admin mode error
(03/20 16:22:03) J'Kla: There is information and help on the guild of writers forum
(03/20 16:22:16) Moulton: What concerns me is that the Uru Community appears to be schisming into factions which at times appear to be antagonistic to each other.
(03/20 16:22:41) Yutiel: no, tried it with and without, tried it with drizzle and without...reinstalled everything maybe at least 6 times, nothing helped
(03/20 16:22:45) J'Kla: They come and go we tend towards neutral here
(03/20 16:22:46) Moulton: And it spills over into the in-game experience, too.
(03/20 16:23:00) J'Kla: We have often played peace maker
(03/20 16:23:39) Moulton: There does not appear to be any conflict resolution process that I had been aware of in these factional disputes.
(03/20 16:23:54) J'Kla: Does Drizzle work for you Yutiel
(03/20 16:24:11) Yutiel: went for the manual of GOW and another time did, what Dulcamara told me to do...nope.
(03/20 16:24:13) Drahcir: Gonna go finish my minkata... good to see you J'Kla. one of these days I'd like to get joined up to this hood.
(03/20 16:24:45) J'Kla: see you later Drahcir
(03/20 16:24:56) Yutiel: no, Drizzle won't work in DI so far
(03/20 16:25:00) Moulton: Drizzle is not the problem for Yutiel. Dulcamara and I tried to diagnose her issue. The client, UruExplorer.Exe simply crashes on her installation when she connects to Deep Island.
(03/20 16:25:22) J'Kla: now that's odd
(03/20 16:25:32) Yutiel: same with UAM
(03/20 16:25:36) Moulton: It works in UAM Shard for her.
(03/20 16:25:55) Moulton: Oh? I thought you got into UAM. No?
(03/20 16:25:58) Yutiel: no, only on another computer, Moulton
(03/20 16:26:08) Moulton: Oh, not on Win 7?
(03/20 16:26:26) Yutiel: It's a win7 too, but it's not mine
(03/20 16:26:30) Moulton: Ah.
(03/20 16:26:35) J'Kla: So the fail is computer specific?
(03/20 16:26:41) Moulton nods.
(03/20 16:26:46) Yutiel: Seems so.
(03/20 16:27:21) Moulton: We did get Irene Tull's installations to work, but that was MOULa on Win 10 where she was missing a bunch of .dll files.
(03/20 16:27:49) Moulton: But we are stumped with Yut's issues on her Win 7.
(03/20 16:28:12) Yutiel: i dont have a problem with TOC or Gehn or here.
(03/20 16:28:14) J'Kla: Ok get an install built then experiment with various compatibility modes Note Drizzle and Deep Island were both built in the era of XP
(03/20 16:28:51) Moulton: We went through all combinations of Compatibility Mode. No joy.
(03/20 16:29:23) Yutiel: That's why I wanna try to install a virtual XP on my win7
(03/20 16:29:23) J'Kla: If a moula shard works then it's not comms
(03/20 16:29:52) Moulton: DI and UAM are the ones Yut reports the same failure mode on.
(03/20 16:30:01) Yutiel: my very last try..:D
(03/20 16:30:16) J'Kla: It is uber odd
(03/20 16:30:37) Yutiel is sorta bummed...
(03/20 16:31:01) J'Kla: I feel for you because you can't see MY ages lol
(03/20 16:31:19) Moulton: Dulcamara and I were on Screen-Sharing Skype with Yut for several hours. Dulcamara attended closely to the installation procedures.
(03/20 16:31:57) J'Kla: I've seen DI run on a dial up
(03/20 16:32:00) Yutiel: they didn't trust
(03/20 16:32:04) Moulton: And UAM installation is fully automatic.
(03/20 16:32:18) Moulton: DI installation is a bear.
(03/20 16:32:25) J'Kla: And Drizzle is a local run un shared
(03/20 16:32:55) Sandman waves hello
(03/20 16:32:58) J'Kla: Shorah Sandman
(03/20 16:32:59) Yutiel: hi Sand
(03/20 16:33:10) Sandman: hope i do not disturb?
(03/20 16:33:18) J'Kla: nope all welcome
(03/20 16:33:24) Sandman: :)
(03/20 16:33:32) J'Kla: Open meeting every Sunday
(03/20 16:33:35) Yutiel: We discuss technical matters, you are welcome to join
(03/20 16:34:04) J'Kla: Not always Technical
(03/20 16:34:13) J'Kla: but it's that way today
(03/20 16:34:22) Yutiel: Or do you have a game-related question, Sand?
(03/20 16:34:40) J'Kla: Or a philosophical
(03/20 16:34:46) Yutiel: Lol
(03/20 16:34:50) J'Kla: we don't mind
(03/20 16:35:13) Sandman: not at the moment i think
(03/20 16:35:27) Moulton: My issue is about Community Building and evidence of a rivening, to borrow a term of art from the Myst series.
(03/20 16:36:01) Sandman: just started my new e-cig and vaping *makes some vape-donuts*
(03/20 16:36:46) Yutiel: Dont lull us with smoke rings Sand..:D
(03/20 16:36:50) J'Kla: A healthy option Sandman
(03/20 16:37:01) Yutiel: Rivening?
(03/20 16:37:10) Sandman: yes, but will be regulated to death soon here in germany
(03/20 16:37:16) J'Kla: I prefer pastry donuts
(03/20 16:37:44) Sandman: been vaping since 5 years, sad to see the influence of tobacco industry on politics now
(03/20 16:37:44) Yutiel: donuts are for
(03/20 16:38:19) J'Kla: Well if there's a place in the cavern that shows community it has to be TMP
(03/20 16:38:43) Yutiel: Yes.Let's get back to Moulton's issue.
(03/20 16:38:52) Yutiel: TMP?
(03/20 16:38:52) J'Kla: And the Military and former Military Donuts that is
(03/20 16:38:54) Sandman: yes, sorry *blush*
(03/20 16:39:08) Yutiel: Lol, Kla
(03/20 16:39:11) J'Kla: TMP The Meeting Place
(03/20 16:39:21) J'Kla: this hood's community
(03/20 16:39:52) J'Kla: We have had Transatlantic real life meets
(03/20 16:39:58) Yutiel: oh...sorry...sure
(03/20 16:40:09) Yutiel: Wow
(03/20 16:40:18) J'Kla: over years
(03/20 16:40:22) Moulton: My observation is that there is arising (or at least just now appearing to me) to be rival Moieties (factions) where are in a curious state of internecine conflict.
(03/20 16:40:47) J'Kla: All conflicts fade eventually
(03/20 16:41:24) Yutiel: pls speak simple english or my dictionary overheats, Moulton.
(03/20 16:41:32) J'Kla: Sometimes both parties fade before resolution
(03/20 16:41:43) Moulton: And while conflict is inevitable (and not necessarily unhealthy) in a diverse community, I am concerned about uncollegial and uncongenial treatment of people across the faction boundaries.
(03/20 16:41:51) Sandman: you mean in the whole game?
(03/20 16:42:12) Yutiel: Yes, here too.
(03/20 16:42:34) J'Kla: Cyan tried to factionalize the fanbase that was the original plan
(03/20 16:42:50) Moulton: It spills over between in-game and on the associated social networks (mainly Facebook).
(03/20 16:43:37) Moulton: In the original games, the Stranger had to decide who was the Good Guy and who was the Bad Guy. And it wasn't obvious.
(03/20 16:43:43) J'Kla: there were Yeesha followers and the Cavern reconstruction people
(03/20 16:44:10) Moulton: Gehn turns out to be the bad guy who imprisons his own daughter-in-law. And the sons of Atrus become rivals.
(03/20 16:44:35) Moulton: So it's built into the backstory of the Myst games.
(03/20 16:45:00) Yutiel: i hope, the game Obduction will keep many players so long away from the community here, that they will see the fun and the joy of Uru-online again, when they come back.
(03/20 16:45:37) Yutiel: many bad-behavior results out of boredom.
(03/20 16:46:24) Moulton: The social drama of the Moiety (the rebels who sought to free Catherine from the tyranny of Gehn) is a model for some of the rival factions in the Community here.
(03/20 16:46:58) J'Kla: Meet Ante another of our original members
(03/20 16:47:03) Moulton: It's ironic that the same drama is occurring among the players here.
(03/20 16:47:04) Ante: Shorah all
(03/20 16:47:07) Yutiel: hello Ante :)
(03/20 16:47:14) Moulton: Hello.
(03/20 16:47:53) J'Kla: The Uru experience we have found works when you make friends and discuss experiences
(03/20 16:48:08) J'Kla: Both Real Life, Game and other Games
(03/20 16:48:12) Ante: Been member here since beginning of URU god knows how many years lol
(03/20 16:48:13) Moulton: And while healthy conflict is to be expected, my observation is that this instance is pathologically insidious, spoiling the enjoyment of the Uru experience.
(03/20 16:48:17) Yutiel: i already thought of quitting this game if it gets worse, but I like it so much, would be a shame :(
(03/20 16:48:42) Sandman: Shorah Ante
(03/20 16:49:00) Yutiel: then a warm welcome-back to you , Ante :)
(03/20 16:49:20) J'Kla: I have been enjoying Myst/Uru since the original Myst game
(03/20 16:49:22) Ante: ty Yutiel :-)
(03/20 16:49:38) Moulton: Ironically enough, the parallels to the Myst backstory are intriguing, because it suggests that not everyone learned the insights built into the game design.
(03/20 16:49:43) Yutiel: me too :))
(03/20 16:49:53) J'Kla: Back when I installed my first 2x CDrom
(03/20 16:50:00) J'Kla: drive that is
(03/20 16:50:45) Ante: i played that old myst too
(03/20 16:51:11) Ante: but i was here when uru came online first time
(03/20 16:51:27) J'Kla: It was a lack of new content that drove D'Lanor and me to build the first Until uru python add on The Walker Project
(03/20 16:51:32) Yutiel: Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like banana :D
(03/20 16:51:41) Moulton: Shall I go on, or have I said enough about the Elephant in the Room that people are reluctant to talk openly about?
(03/20 16:51:44) Ante: true lol
(03/20 16:51:47) Sandman: BANANA
(03/20 16:52:19) J'Kla: Your showing some mellow yellow sandman
(03/20 16:53:03) J'Kla: Keep going Moulton
(03/20 16:53:03) Ante: please dont make the water yellow in the fountain lol
(03/20 16:53:13) J'Kla: Gin Ante
(03/20 16:53:23) Yutiel: Lol
(03/20 16:53:52) J'Kla: We replaced it with Gin during Until Uru or at least The Major did
(03/20 16:54:04) Ante: ah nice
(03/20 16:54:08) Yutiel: Oh yes?
(03/20 16:54:22) J'Kla: Remember you handed out chocolates
(03/20 16:54:27) Yutiel: Wanna bath in it.
(03/20 16:54:30) Ante: yes i do
(03/20 16:54:41) J'Kla: And June hugged everyone
(03/20 16:54:43) Ante gives choc to all
(03/20 16:54:51) J'Kla: ty
(03/20 16:55:04) Yutiel: Ah, thx.
(03/20 16:55:17) Ante: i was the one who invented the hug in here
(03/20 16:55:17) Moulton: A few times, when this issue surfaced on some of the Uru discussion groups on FB, the attacks and counter-attacks became ugly enough that the dialogue was shut down. There did not appear to be a viable forum for collegial and congenial exploration of the issues and the conflict.
(03/20 16:55:31) J'Kla: And Ghavin offered a cheese board
(03/20 16:55:46) Ante starts to laugh
(03/20 16:55:54) Yutiel has the mouth full with melting chocolate and can't contribute to the discussion now.
(03/20 16:56:06) J'Kla: The forum to talk is here Moulton
(03/20 16:56:21) Moulton: The factions appear to be retreating into their cloisters.
(03/20 16:56:37) J'Kla: Cyan always preferred not to intervene but would if we did not find peace
(03/20 16:56:51) Yutiel: And they put us on ignore now :(
(03/20 16:56:59) Sandman: hmm, i doubt there is a thing like on single underlaying conflic from what all other conflicts arise
(03/20 16:57:00) J'Kla: We don't mind them retreating
(03/20 16:57:07) Sandman: one
(03/20 16:57:22) Sandman: (sorry, poor english)
(03/20 16:57:44) J'Kla: Ignore is always an option
(03/20 16:57:47) Moulton: Not just ignore. Two of the Uru Groups on FB have begun to block individuals, depending on which faction the Admins belong to.
(03/20 16:58:05) Moulton: And so people clammed up.
(03/20 16:58:32) J'Kla: Don't appologise Sandman
(03/20 16:58:55) J'Kla: we know all have their own first language
(03/20 16:58:55) Sandman: can you explain what kind of faction you mean?
(03/20 16:58:57) Yutiel: Pffttt...I don't mind, but the sad thing is, its taking friendships here apart too.
(03/20 16:59:22) Ante: thats not good
(03/20 16:59:31) J'Kla: True friendships are solid
(03/20 16:59:35) Ante: yes
(03/20 16:59:38) From Yutiel: don't mention names....
(03/20 16:59:43) J'Kla: Factions can't break them
(03/20 16:59:45) Moulton: And I fear the advent of Whispering Campaigns to undermine the standing and good name of some of the people who care about solving this in a responsible manner.
(03/20 16:59:49) Ante: and its always solid in this group
(03/20 17:00:16) Yutiel: good. I will come here more often :)
(03/20 17:00:43) J'Kla: We had one troll and way back and Cyan ejected him
(03/20 17:01:06) J'Kla: he was trolling lots of hoods
(03/20 17:01:13) Moulton: So what I am looking for is a neutral venue for conflict resolution for the good and welfare of the community at large.
(03/20 17:01:35) J'Kla: invite parties here
(03/20 17:02:01) J'Kla: The TMP base hood are good at conflict resolution
(03/20 17:02:31) Moulton: People don't use the same names on FB as they do in-game, so I am not clear on who the parties are.
(03/20 17:02:52) J'Kla: During the fall of Until Uru I was being trolled for trying to resolve a Kagi key issue
(03/20 17:02:55) From Yutiel: not today, haven't got the strength and nerve to deal with it yet.
(03/20 17:03:19) J'Kla: I was being trolled until I was backed in my position by Cyan
(03/20 17:03:36) J'Kla: as it happened we did not need those Kagi Keys
(03/20 17:04:01) J'Kla: Deep Island etc happened without them
(03/20 17:05:47) Moulton: Phone call....
(03/20 17:05:49) Ante: brb
(03/20 17:05:51) Sandman: what are kagi keys?
(03/20 17:06:09) Moulton: Hang on a bit.
(03/20 17:06:28) Yutiel: Wow, what are some peeps after? Attention? Destroying?
(03/20 17:07:01) J'Kla: Kagi Key was required Key Code needed to access Until Uru
(03/20 17:07:18) Sandman: power
(03/20 17:07:24) J'Kla: fifteen dollar one off admin fee for Kagi Key
(03/20 17:08:04) Yutiel: i saw people here treating new ones, who don't speak much English, as griefers, had to speak up for them. Sad.
(03/20 17:08:08) J'Kla: One of the good things about Uru is only Cyan have power
(03/20 17:08:55) J'Kla: Cyan choose to be benign and in the background
(03/20 17:09:03) Sandman: but cyan left this game alone in some way and now it is kind of a sociological sandbox
(03/20 17:09:40) J'Kla: You will notice their are no weapons here
(03/20 17:09:41) Yutiel: Thats a two-sided good thing, cause if you wanna make something better or new and interesting here, they wont allow it.
(03/20 17:09:45) Moulton: Sorry. That was an academic colleague of mine on the phone about a meeting at MIT tomorrow.
(03/20 17:09:51) Christian Walther: Shorah folks
(03/20 17:10:05) Yutiel: hello Christian
(03/20 17:10:13) J'Kla: Shorah CW
(03/20 17:10:47) Sandman: shorah cw
(03/20 17:10:48) Moulton: Back to the suggestion to invite the warring factions here ....
(03/20 17:11:07) J'Kla: I have been part of building New and Interesting so I can say it is possible it is however hard
(03/20 17:11:24) Christian Walther: Shorah Drahcir
(03/20 17:11:30) Christian Walther: warring?
(03/20 17:11:43) Drahcir: Hello. long time no see. lol
(03/20 17:11:44) Yutiel: Wb Drahcir
(03/20 17:11:45) Moulton: My observation is that they have begun to put their adversaries on Ignore here and blocking them on FB, so that the direct communication channels are shut down
(03/20 17:12:02) J'Kla: May I introduce CW who has contributed to New and Interesting
(03/20 17:12:02) Moulton: That means it might come down to Shuttle Diplomacy.
(03/20 17:12:06) Ante: bk
(03/20 17:12:21) J'Kla: Diplomacy is an option
(03/20 17:12:23) Ante: shorah Christian
(03/20 17:12:40) Christian Walther: Hi Ante
(03/20 17:12:44) Ante: Shorah Drakir
(03/20 17:12:52) Yutiel: ah, Hi again Contributor CW :)
(03/20 17:12:59) Drahcir: Hi ante. been awile
(03/20 17:13:03) Moulton: I cannot invite some of them because some of them have already blocked me on FB.
(03/20 17:13:08) Ante: yes it been
(03/20 17:13:29) Ante: i always come here too late
(03/20 17:14:20) J'Kla: If they wont talk Moulton don't let them phase you
(03/20 17:14:48) J'Kla: Sometimes the only option is to walk away
(03/20 17:14:55) Ante: true
(03/20 17:15:07) Moulton: I spoke to the most diplomatic and neutral person I know, and she does not want to act as a mediator. Nor can I blame her. There was no mediation between Sirrus and Achenar. There was no mediation between Atrus and Gehn. The model did not admit of that kind of peaceable resolution.
(03/20 17:15:09) Christian Walther: I'm getting the impression I missed something (my fault for being late I guess)
(03/20 17:15:11) J'Kla: Agree to disagree
(03/20 17:15:38) Yutiel: i dont care about them anymore, but if they badmouth me here then .....
(03/20 17:15:52) Moulton: The disagreement is very deep and fundamental.
(03/20 17:16:06) Sandman: then...? Stop feeding trolls, it is not worth it imho
(03/20 17:17:15) Moulton: Last week, I observed one of the leading members of the warring faction accuse the others of being Griefers, Hackers, and Trolls. I hadn't even heard of that term of art before (Griefers). I had to go look it up.
(03/20 17:17:38) Moulton: Had to go look it up. My Ki Chat is fading on me even as I type.
(03/20 17:17:50) J'Kla: We have seen all of those pass through
(03/20 17:18:11) Yutiel: giovanni is in the city, i must go and see, if hes allright. Be back soon.
(03/20 17:18:15) Moulton: And that's another technical issue. I only see 9 lines of scrollback on my Ki Chat., making it virtually unusable.
(03/20 17:18:19) J'Kla: KI settings moulton
(03/20 17:18:21) Christian Walther: (That's a known but as far as I know an understood bug. Try moving the slider (seriously).)
(03/20 17:18:30) Ante: ok Ytiel
(03/20 17:18:35) Christian Walther: The fading, I mean.
(03/20 17:18:37) Moulton: I know all about that.
(03/20 17:18:54) J'Kla: Then theres a chatlog
(03/20 17:18:59) Christian Walther: You mean you can't scroll up, Moulton?
(03/20 17:19:03) Moulton: But I was in the middle of a sentence when the phone rang, and it faded.
(03/20 17:19:26) Moulton: I can scroll up, but it jumps back down when someone else comments.
(03/20 17:19:31) J'Kla: If the sliders full over it never fades
(03/20 17:19:34) Moulton: And there isn't very much scrollback.
(03/20 17:19:37) Christian Walther: Ah, that's a known issue and fixed in the next update.
(03/20 17:19:57) J'Kla: or the one after that lol
(03/20 17:20:04) J'Kla: as Cyan say soon
(03/20 17:20:06) Moulton: So I had to turn on /StartLog and toggle over to my Terminal Window to see what scrolled off.
(03/20 17:20:30) J'Kla: Shouldn't take phone calls lol
(03/20 17:20:34) Moulton: It's downright unusable by any reasonable standard.
(03/20 17:20:36) Christian Walther: Yeah, for phone calls that's the best option.
(03/20 17:21:04) Christian Walther: One of the big controversies about the KI.
(03/20 17:21:11) J'Kla: You can always come back next week and start again
(03/20 17:21:16) Moulton: That was my academic colleague about our meeting tomorrow at the MIT Media Lab. Turns out we may have a Snow Day here.
(03/20 17:21:39) J'Kla: Have your meeting here
(03/20 17:21:53) J'Kla: The cavern is always open
(03/20 17:21:53) Moulton: It's exasperating to address these issues with lame communication technology.
(03/20 17:22:29) Moulton: But that's not what I came here to talk about.
(03/20 17:22:50) J'Kla: Over years we have become familiar with the intricacies of communicating here
(03/20 17:22:53) J'Kla: here
(03/20 17:23:00) Moulton: There does not appear to be a functional Community Social Contract or Conflict Resolution Process in this community.
(03/20 17:23:15) Christian Walther: Okay. Sorry for the distraction. I tend to jump on casual bug reports to try to make them useful.
(03/20 17:24:14) Moulton: I am a professional problem-solver but this one appears to be beyond my pay grade.
(03/20 17:24:35) J'Kla: We find that since conflicts here dont have weaponization or slavery or a fiscal component the only option is to resolve by talking
(03/20 17:24:37) Christian Walther: You probably wouldn't be here if you weren't :)
(03/20 17:25:18) Moulton: I agree. But I don't see how to talk it out when FB group discussions are shut down. When people are blocked on FB or put on Ignore here.
(03/20 17:25:43) Moulton: And then when Whispering Campaigns get underway.
(03/20 17:25:50) J'Kla: The ultimate sanction being ignore or agree to disagree or find common ground
(03/20 17:26:01) J'Kla: That is the only options
(03/20 17:26:21) Moulton: I'll tell you what the common ground is, gentleman. The common ground is drama.
(03/20 17:26:30) Moulton: A long running festering drama.
(03/20 17:26:58) Ante: i try to avoid drama
(03/20 17:27:09) J'Kla: storm in a teacup you can walk away from
(03/20 17:27:11) Christian Walther: My preferred reaction to drama in the Uru community has been popcorn...
(03/20 17:27:18) Moulton: That's why the admins on the Uru-related FB groups shut down the dialogue.
(03/20 17:27:45) Moulton: They don't want the drama.
(03/20 17:28:11) Moulton: But here is my take on drama. Shakespeare wrote basically two kinds of drama: Tragedy and Comedy.
(03/20 17:28:33) Moulton: I am not a fan of Tragedy. I prefer Comedy.
(03/20 17:28:38) J'Kla: We dont mind drama as long as it plays out to Agree OR Agree to Disagree
(03/20 17:28:50) Ante: we dont have drama in TMP group
(03/20 17:29:00) J'Kla: Prolonged Drama just becomes boring
(03/20 17:29:01) Moulton: What does TMP stand for?
(03/20 17:29:11) Ante: The meeting Place
(03/20 17:29:23) Moulton: I have never been here before.
(03/20 17:29:29) J'Kla: And Peace and Harmony
(03/20 17:29:32) Christian Walther: our neighborhood - the people and the place
(03/20 17:29:47) J'Kla: We stand for that or sit or dance
(03/20 17:29:49) J'Kla does a dance
(03/20 17:29:50) Moulton: Are you gentlemen employes of Cyan?
(03/20 17:30:00) Christian Walther: no
(03/20 17:30:01) Ante: not me
(03/20 17:30:13) Christian Walther: nobody that I know of at least
(03/20 17:30:14) Moulton: Or are you community leaders outside of Cyan?
(03/20 17:30:15) J'Kla: Just resident Idiots of long time standing
(03/20 17:30:31) J'Kla: Years of Uru
(03/20 17:30:31) Ante: no not me
(03/20 17:30:40) Christian Walther: well said JK
(03/20 17:30:49) Ante: lol
(03/20 17:31:15) Moulton: See, this is not a Cyan issue. This is a Community Issue. Uru is Open Source with the Community on multiple shards and on social networking sites like Facebook.
(03/20 17:32:09) Moulton: And the community needs a functional venue for conflict resolution.
(03/20 17:32:14) J'Kla: This is an Uru community.
(03/20 17:32:34) Moulton: What is the scope of 'This" in your sentence?
(03/20 17:32:40) J'Kla: A self built community
(03/20 17:32:58) Sandman: such things do not work in real life without authorities to force resolutions... why should it work in this game
(03/20 17:33:05) Moulton: Does it have its own Social Contract, beyond the terms that Cyan puts on the login window?
(03/20 17:33:10) Ante: just a bunch of solid friends
(03/20 17:33:33) J'Kla: This. We know who we are from years of open discussion
(03/20 17:33:41) J'Kla: SOLID
(03/20 17:33:46) Moulton: Let me ask if any of you also attend to community happenings on Facebook.
(03/20 17:33:46) Christian Walther: Assuming we're talking about TMP, yes it does, it's on the imager.
(03/20 17:34:07) Christian Walther: I don't use Facebook when I can.
(03/20 17:34:07) Sandman: i dont, for me ingame is ingame
(03/20 17:34:13) Moulton: Or on any other modern technology social network.
(03/20 17:34:17) Sandman: in the game
(03/20 17:34:24) Ante: no i havent even been to FB community groups
(03/20 17:34:32) J'Kla: Frinds who predate Facebook and most of its ilk
(03/20 17:34:49) Zeke365: back sorry about that
(03/20 17:34:51) Moulton: It would be an eye-opener to see what goes on in some of them.
(03/20 17:34:57) Ante: wb Yutiel
(03/20 17:34:58) Christian Walther: Are forums "modern technology"? That's what I mostly keep in touch with the Uru community with.
(03/20 17:35:00) J'Kla: We don't bad mouth them they are just another sort of community
(03/20 17:35:13) Moulton: And since it's the same people, the animosity carries over to in-game.
(03/20 17:35:16) Zeke365: I know of the facebook groups 4 main active ones
(03/20 17:35:28) Sandman: i accept the forum as bridge between game and real life at the most, facebook groups are not for me
(03/20 17:35:47) J'Kla: We have used a bulletin board since the Ubisoft shutdown
(03/20 17:35:48) Moulton: I saw an example of that just today, and spent several hours comforting someone who had been treated shabbily.
(03/20 17:36:08) J'Kla: Comfort is good
(03/20 17:36:27) Moulton: There are at least two other forum sites. One run by Cyan and one run by Guild of Writers.
(03/20 17:36:32) J'Kla: Our BB is WebPanda
(03/20 17:36:41) J'Kla: its a long story
(03/20 17:36:46) Christian Walther: Yes, I frequent those and a couple more.
(03/20 17:36:58) Moulton: But I came here because today's episode was hardly the first.
(03/20 17:37:19) Moulton: And they all are connected to the same internecine factionalism.
(03/20 17:37:32) Zeke365: what ever happened to the guild of ants?
(03/20 17:38:32) J'Kla: When Ubisoft pulled the plug on the first shards Webpanda was a owned by June one of our members and she gave us community space to coalece
(03/20 17:38:40) Moulton: I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.
(03/20 17:39:12) Moulton: Are the shards also part of the factionalism?
(03/20 17:39:30) Christian Walther: Sorry if I'm not helping getting anywhere, but I was late to the discussion and am still a little mystified.
(03/20 17:39:32) J'Kla: Are you trying to say we are? Moulton We make an effort not to be drawn in
(03/20 17:39:42) Moulton: I note that there appears to be bad blood between some of the founders of some of the shards.
(03/20 17:39:51) From Yutiel: What do you expect them to do in this case?
(03/20 17:40:04) Christian Walther: You mean whether different people play on different shards? Not in my experience, although I don't know TOC very well.
(03/20 17:40:37) Christian Walther: I'm not currently aware of anything like that, which shards do you mean?
(03/20 17:40:50) Moulton: It's not just the schisming that I notice. It's the mean-spirited antagonism across the faction boundaries.
(03/20 17:41:13) J'Kla: Do you see a boundary here?
(03/20 17:41:26) Moulton: What is the scope of 'here'?
(03/20 17:41:34) J'Kla: this hood?
(03/20 17:42:00) From Yutiel: between the founders of DI and UAM you mean, Moulton?
(03/20 17:42:05) Moulton: I am not familiar with the membership, philosophy, or practices of the members of this hood.
(03/20 17:42:10) Christian Walther: I guess we're all on the same side of the boundary. Wherever it is.
(03/20 17:42:17) To Yutiel: Yes, for example.
(03/20 17:42:46) J'Kla: this is a hood that extends outside of Uru it has aspects on other games
(03/20 17:43:00) Christian Walther: (Sorry, that may have sounded flippant. Not my intention, I just missed the part of the discussion where you explained it.)
(03/20 17:43:10) Ante: we all help each others or anyone else who need it in here with the game
(03/20 17:43:12) J'Kla: But we try not to be a faction
(03/20 17:43:17) Moulton: Let me ask if this hood has either a written or a tacit social contract?
(03/20 17:43:26) Christian Walther: Both, I would say.
(03/20 17:43:35) Moulton: Is it published online anywhere?
(03/20 17:43:36) Christian Walther: The written one is on the imager, as I mentioned.
(03/20 17:43:42) J'Kla: It appears on the viewer
(03/20 17:43:50) Christian Walther: Only on our members-only forum I think.
(03/20 17:43:53) Moulton: Meaning it's a short paragraph?
(03/20 17:43:57) J'Kla: Basicaly do no bad
(03/20 17:43:59) Christian Walther: But can send you the KI-mail, one sec
(03/20 17:44:10) J'Kla: be nice
(03/20 17:44:20) Moulton: Can you send it in a more modern form of messaging?
(03/20 17:44:40) J'Kla: It's posted on Webpanda
(03/20 17:44:53) Christian Walther: I probably could, but is it important enough to put in the effort?
(03/20 17:44:53) J'Kla: we don't really send
(03/20 17:45:12) Christian Walther: I would need to look it up on Webpanda (our forum) to copy it out.
(03/20 17:45:16) Moulton: Is it dated other than today? It doesn't appear at the top of my Incoming.
(03/20 17:45:25) Christian Walther: Yes, let me see...
(03/20 17:45:38) Christian Walther: 10/05/14
(03/20 17:45:54) J'Kla: It's actually older
(03/20 17:45:56) Moulton: Give me about three minutes to tediously scroll down the Incoming on Ki.
(03/20 17:46:08) Christian Walther: Certainly.
(03/20 17:46:14) J'Kla: we had to reissue after several vault wipes
(03/20 17:46:56) J'Kla: thats several reissues
(03/20 17:47:09) J'Kla: one message
(03/20 17:47:36) Christian Walther: With slight amendments in the latest reissue since it was showing its 2003 roots.
(03/20 17:47:45) Moulton: I cannot type here while the message is open.
(03/20 17:47:50) J'Kla: lol
(03/20 17:47:56) Christian Walther: Strange, I just could.
(03/20 17:48:04) Ante gives all some more choc before i go find my pillow
(03/20 17:48:08) Christian Walther: I clicked on Age Players, maybe that helped.
(03/20 17:48:15) Moulton: It typed inside the message.
(03/20 17:48:23) Yutiel: Nice of you Ante :)
(03/20 17:48:27) Christian Walther: Thanks Ante, and goodnight
(03/20 17:48:31) Ante: Yw:-)
(03/20 17:48:39) Yutiel: Night Ante
(03/20 17:48:58) Sandman: bye
(03/20 17:49:08) J'Kla: BTH I will not be here next weekend
(03/20 17:49:11) Ante: night everyone and have a great time here
(03/20 17:49:18) J'Kla: I will be Camping off the grid
(03/20 17:49:39) Moulton: If someone is acting in an unethical manner, and I bring it up, naming names, they will take offense and/or be embarrassed. So Rule #1 makes it impossible to address cases of unbecoming conduct.
(03/20 17:49:53) J'Kla: No phone never mind internet
(03/20 17:49:55) Ante waves hello
(03/20 17:50:06) Yutiel waves goodbye
(03/20 17:50:14) Christian Walther: Possible. Maybe we never had the issue.
(03/20 17:50:27) J'Kla: Nope never an issue
(03/20 17:50:50) J'Kla: Nice people don't do that
(03/20 17:50:58) Moulton: How are infractions of the rules adjudicated? Is there a process of hearing, due process? What?
(03/20 17:51:10) J'Kla: Never had to
(03/20 17:51:47) Yutiel: WHERE IS MY DICTIONARY ?
(03/20 17:51:49) J'Kla: twice we showed evidence to Cyan and they blocked the accounts
(03/20 17:52:03) Moulton: I reckon the rules are written in such a manner that it is against the rules to address issues of unethical conduct on the part of anyone. That would explain why it's never happened.
(03/20 17:52:36) Moulton: I cannot bring forward the specifics under your Rule #1.
(03/20 17:53:02) J'Kla: No I mean we have not had that Unethical conduct to deal with
(03/20 17:53:02) Moulton: For it is embarrasing to be accused of wrong-doing. People do take exception to that.
(03/20 17:53:33) Moulton: Maybe that is why so many people have come to me to tell me about their experiences.
(03/20 17:54:10) Moulton: And that is why I wondered why there is no process in the community for addressing their concerns.
(03/20 17:54:36) J'Kla: Are you a lawyer?
(03/20 17:54:40) Christian Walther: There generally is none of anything in the community unless someone makes it.
(03/20 17:54:51) Yutiel: lol
(03/20 17:55:07) Moulton: No. I am a retired scientist, engineer, network planner, and builder of online learning communities.
(03/20 17:55:19) Christian Walther: Shorah Giovanni
(03/20 17:55:35) giovanni4: ciao
(03/20 17:55:41) Sandman: Hi Giovanni
(03/20 17:55:41) Yutiel: Buena sera Gio :)
(03/20 17:55:43) J'Kla: Shorah
(03/20 17:56:02) Moulton: And I have found the rule of law incapable of living up to its intended purpose.
(03/20 17:56:05) J'Kla: So Moulton you look for conflict to resolve
(03/20 17:56:28) Moulton: That's why I asked if you had a social contract. But what you have is not a social contract but a list of rules.
(03/20 17:56:29) Yutiel: ALWAYS....yes
(03/20 17:56:54) Christian Walther: Okay, then I misunderstood.
(03/20 17:57:02) J'Kla: And so we see your resolve
(03/20 17:57:03) Moulton: People who are enmeshed in conflict come to me in search of functional solutions.
(03/20 17:57:32) Moulton: And sometimes I can help them and sometimes it's beyond my ken.
(03/20 17:57:40) Moulton: This one is well beyond my ken.
(03/20 17:57:53) J'Kla: We have noticed
(03/20 17:58:03) Yutiel: then maybe you should attend these meetings on a weekly basis, Moulton
(03/20 17:58:05) J'Kla: Ken was here earlier
(03/20 17:58:10) Moulton: I am vexed and perplexed by this one.
(03/20 17:58:18) Christian Walther: lol
(03/20 17:58:24) Christian Walther: (at JK)
(03/20 17:58:26) J'Kla: Please don't bring vexation
(03/20 17:58:48) J'Kla: No he was back when it was UntilUru
(03/20 17:58:58) J'Kla: Ken was a member
(03/20 17:59:04) J'Kla: Nice guy
(03/20 17:59:17) J'Kla: friend of Ghavin
(03/20 17:59:36) Christian Walther: Never heard of him, that was before my time
(03/20 17:59:38) Moulton: I have been contacted by more than half a dozen people who are vexed and perplexed by the rude and obnoxious conduct of some of the members of the community. And they are at their wits end regarding how to respond.
(03/20 17:59:48) J'Kla: Our Ken may not be Moulton's Ken
(03/20 18:00:15) Moulton: Is there an emote here for rolling one's eyes?
(03/20 18:00:22) Yutiel: lol
(03/20 18:00:27) J'Kla: Please we will be nice to those if they come here
(03/20 18:00:42) J'Kla rolls eyes
(03/20 18:00:51) Sandman: it is like in real life.. there are rude and egocentric people, i see no way to change it
(03/20 18:01:15) Moulton: At least one of them has been here. But the ones I have talked to are too intimidated to speak up.
(03/20 18:01:26) Christian Walther: And who was that?
(03/20 18:01:33) J'Kla: But you can be infuriatingly nice to them it really gets up their noses
(03/20 18:01:34) Moulton: I am not at liberty to name names.
(03/20 18:01:41) Moulton: Not yet, anyway.
(03/20 18:01:58) J'Kla: Feel free
(03/20 18:02:15) Christian Walther: No problem, it would just help my understanding of the situation.
(03/20 18:02:37) Moulton: I feel like I am the straight man here in a Vaudeville Comedy Sketch.
(03/20 18:03:05) J'Kla: I think the last person we had a problem with was persisting in sharing a relto book repeatedly
(03/20 18:03:29) Moulton: Now if your model is to lampoon the conflict, I can embrace that approach with as much gusto as anyone.
(03/20 18:03:44) J'Kla: Please try to not be straight
(03/20 18:03:59) Moulton: I think I may have met that person. A few months ago, to solve Ahnonay perhaps?
(03/20 18:04:12) J'Kla: we have a curly disposition that tends to follow a stream of consciousness
(03/20 18:04:15) Moulton: And English was not among his usable languages?
(03/20 18:04:29) Yutiel: Giovanni here was a victim of prejudice here. Cause he cant speak English, he was suspected to be a griefer and put on ignore. I had to speak up for him in public but dont know if it helped.thats just one example.
(03/20 18:04:34) Christian Walther looks up "lampoon"
(03/20 18:04:43) Christian Walther: Not my intention, no. Sorry if it sounds that way.
(03/20 18:05:01) Christian Walther: Just injecting some of our group's humour.
(03/20 18:05:08) J'Kla: Lampoon is however well within my remit
(03/20 18:05:17) Moulton: Look gentlemen, when I cannot address a problem in a functional manner within the offices of the community, I too, turn to offline comedy.
(03/20 18:05:28) J'Kla: But usually amongst those I consider friends
(03/20 18:05:53) Moulton: So may I receive your blessing to take leave of your good offices and turn to offline comedy?
(03/20 18:06:36) J'Kla: Leave if you must
(03/20 18:06:42) Christian Walther: Certainly, no blessing required.
(03/20 18:06:51) Moulton: I am known for writing song parodies, satires, comic operas, etc.
(03/20 18:07:00) J'Kla: cool
(03/20 18:07:03) Yutiel shakes her head
(03/20 18:07:13) Moulton: And I am more than content to turn to that medium if it please the Court here.
(03/20 18:07:31) J'Kla: It aint no court
(03/20 18:07:45) J'Kla: A meeting of friends
(03/20 18:07:56) Moulton: Would you like to be informed of any such works of literary sarcasm?
(03/20 18:08:13) J'Kla: Our only two officials are indisposed
(03/20 18:08:46) Christian Walther: If it's short enough? It's late and I'll have to leave soon.
(03/20 18:08:47) Moulton: Or would you prefer plausible deniability and a defense of obliviousness if anyone asks?
(03/20 18:09:19) J'Kla: Me too I am in the UK and late evening approaches I have a dog to walk
(03/20 18:09:42) Christian Walther: Sorry, I'm too tired to get my dictionary again, so I can't answer that question. English is not my native language.
(03/20 18:09:51) Moulton: I just need to know if you prefer to be blind-sided or not when I release the Kraken.
(03/20 18:09:54) From Yutiel: Ah, come on Moulton, what you expect them to do?
(03/20 18:09:58) J'Kla: Feel free to bring these entertainments to a later meet
(03/20 18:10:28) J'Kla: The Kraken may awake downwyndham
(03/20 18:10:47) Yutiel: :))
(03/20 18:10:51) Moulton: I shall leave it as a puzzle then for you to solve it that is your desire. Or to remain oblivious of, if that is your desire.
(03/20 18:11:10) Yutiel: Hello Tiff :)
(03/20 18:11:13) Sandman is a bit puzzled...
(03/20 18:11:21) Moulton: Good day or evening, gentlemen.
(03/20 18:11:25) Sandman: hi tiff
(03/20 18:11:29) Moulton waves goodbye
(03/20 18:11:32) T'ffany: hello yutiel dear :)))
(03/20 18:11:32) Christian Walther: See you Moulton
(03/20 18:11:36) Yutiel waves goodbye
(03/20 18:11:47) J'Kla: As I say I am incommunicado next weekend but I may prepare a list
(03/20 18:11:53) T'ffany: bye moulty pooh
(03/20 18:11:56) Moulton fumbles for his relto book.
(03/20 18:12:07) Yutiel: lol Tiff
(03/20 18:12:51) To Yutiel: Stay there for a spell
(03/20 18:13:06) To Yutiel: To catch their remarks now. /StartLog, too
(03/20 18:13:58) To Yutiel: I now have evidence why this nonsense festers for years. They have no functional conflict resolution process.
(03/20 18:25:02) From Yutiel in The Meeting Place's Hood: No one was talking about you or your issues after you left,